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A Friend Sent Me an Exchange We Shared Years Ago (and it made me teary)

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Today a friend I met on the Amazon Discussion Forums years ago emailed me a copy of an exchange we’d had about Christian Science on the Religion Forum. What made this exchange so remarkable for me was that my friend – who went by the moniker “tokolosi” – wasn’t himself a Christian Scientist, but his questions were genuine and he actually listened to what I had to say. It meant a lot, to me, that he’d saved this exchange from long ago, and took the time to send it to me today. I hadn’t heard from my friend for maybe a year, so his email was unexpected. I needed hope for our world today, and “tokolosi” sent it to me.

(I love the summation our friend “Aardwizzz” gives to the whole exchange, too. It was fun to see his voice pop up there at the end.)

From an Amazon Religion Forum exchange:

Karen Wingoof (me) says:

There seems to be an assumption here that everyone who calls himself or herself a Christian is a creationist, in battle against logic, reason, education, and the science of evolution.

A few months ago—from sheer weariness at being constantly lumped in with the doings and beliefs of conservative Christians—and being expected to either defend them or change them—I decided I would no longer identify myself as a Christian, but as a “Karenian”—no longer responsible for anyone else’s foibles, flaws, beliefs, thoughts, and behaviors but my own. I’ve kind of enjoyed the freedom this has brought me. But, to be completely honest, although I’ve changed the label for myself, I still hold the same beliefs I held when I called myself a “Christian”—and I never held the belief that evolution and science were my enemies. In fact, most of my friends who still identify themselves as Christian believe in the workings of evolution—I can’t think of any friends who might believe humans and dinosaurs roamed the earth together like The Flintstones.

Regarding my thoughts on Christian Science: In my mind I’ve come to separate Christian Science into two separate parts—there’s CS the religion; and there’s CS as a way of perceiving the world and a way of living. The religion doesn’t really hold much interest for me these days. I’m just not a very religious person (Humoristianity excepted). I’m not into group-think, group-talk, or group-walk. I like having the freedom to follow my own path, and I will never be made to feel responsible for other people’s beliefs or actions—whether they call themselves Christian Scientists, Christians, theists, or Humoristians. I think any sane person recognizes that you’ll find crazies in pretty much every group—and I think any fair and just person would agree that whole groups of people shouldn’t be judged by the actions of the extremists within their membership.

CS as a way of life—as a way of perceiving life—has brought me a lot of good. The practice of CS has taught me how to bring my thoughts close to God—to Love and Truth—and how to experience healing by doing so. I’ve witnessed or experienced healings of (among other things) mastoiditis (the healing was instantaneous—one moment my little brother was screaming in pain, the next moment he was snoring and sleeping and completely healed), bronchitis; an inflamed hand (markers in a blood test indicated rheumatoid arthritis—but, after calling a CS practitioner for support the hand deflated within a couple days and I’ve never experienced a repeat of that condition in the three years since then); the natural delivery of my youngest son after I’d been wheeled down to the OR for a caesarean (one of the nurses was crying—she said she’d never been able to witness a natural delivery before and it was so beautiful); and what my eye doctor said was a melanoma on my eyelid. (I recently asked for a copy of my medical records from the family physician just to make sure I’d remembered all this stuff correctly and hadn’t inadvertently made any of it up—and the records substantiate my memory of events.) I’ve also experienced healings of clinical depression, and healings in relationships, supply, and employment. So. Yeah. I’ve been able to prove, for myself, the healing power found in Love and Truth.

Whew. That took some time and thought. How’d I do? 🙂

Shoot! My battery’s almost dead. I guess I better post this before my computer goes kapooey here.

tokolosi says:

Karen, I’m a bit confused. (OK, in addition to my normal state…) I don’t know much if anything about CS, but for instance, you said “after calling a CS practitioner for support” such and such occurred. What did calling this person accomplish (I mean besides the healing, or why did calling this person make it happen)? And, with the other miraculous healings, what was it that brought about the outcomes? I mean, did you or others “pray” or “lay on hands” or some such? Do you pray to “God” (or more specific, what you perceive is the Christian God)? No snark intended here. Genuinely curious. Thnx.

Karen Wingoof says:

No snark taken. 🙂

(Got my computer plugged-in now, so it should be good. I am starting to run out of energy, though, so… zzzzzzzzz)

For CSists prayer doesn’t mean pleading, cajoling, or begging some higher power to fix everything. What it really means—for me, anyway—is just filling my thoughts up with love, joy, forgiveness, hope, confidence, courage—and when I’m able to do this, I experience healing.

In the case of my puffed-up hand I’d gone to work and shown my hand to my colleagues who expressed a lot of concern for me and shared stories about allergic reactions and infections that had almost killed loved ones—they had me pretty scared—and so I went to the family physician to have it checked-out. He usually jokes around with me, but this time he did not joke. He said that it looked like I had either a serious infection or a serious reaction of some kind and wanted to take blood samples and put me on medications. I told him I didn’t want to take any drugs until I knew for sure what was going on, but I agreed to let them take blood samples. Then I went home and called a CS practitioner. What the practitioner did for me was—well, I remember just feeling this confidence coming from her. I remember laughing with her. The next morning my hand was even more puffed-up, but I wasn’t scared anymore. I knew I was healed even before my hand looked normal. And by the second morning after I’d called the practitioner it had deflated and I was fine.

I called the doctor’s office to get the results of the blood test, and the receptionist told me the blood test indicated markers for rheumatoid arthritis and they wanted me to get in touch with a rheumatoid specialist. I told her I was completely fine. She was shocked. She brought a nurse to the phone. I told the nurse I was fine, and she sort of paused—I could tell she was surprised—and told me that she guessed I didn’t have to do anything more right then, but to let them know if the condition returned—which it hasn’t.

When I was being wheeled to the OR for a C-section, I asked my mom to call a CS practitioner for support—my mom said the practitioner told her, with conviction, “God loves that baby!” The doctors hooked me up to a machine to monitor the baby. I could feel the love in the room—the love from the medical staff—and I had this sense that everything was moving in harmony with Love. Just before they were going to slice me open, the doctors got these surprised looks on their faces, and then they started yelling, “Push! Push!” And the baby was born naturally. Later, when I asked my midwife why I’d been able to have my son naturally, she said, “We don’t know.”

CSists don’t consider healings to be miracles, by the way. CSists see healings as natural and normal and to be expected—the natural outcome of a change of thought.

tokolosi says:

“CSists don’t consider healings to be miracles, by the way. CSists see healings as natural and normal and to be expected—the natural outcome of a change of thought.”

Excellent! (So is the rest.) Mirrors my own thoughts. (Though not associated with any formal/structured philosophy, i.e., “tokolosi 101.”)

Karen Wingoof says:

Ohmygosh, I’m so glad to hear that, tokolosi! I was really nervous about that post. To be honest, I was sorely tempted to just ignore your questions because I suspect that when I talk about this stuff I usually just end up looking like more of a nut than people already know I am. Thanks for asking, and thanks for being so gracious about the answer. 🙂

tokolosi says:

To me, the healings you describe are “miraculous” but not *miracles*. Way-cool s*** happens because we are human, and can happen for sometimes uncanny inexplicable reasons many times associated with focused intention. But nothing “supernatural” is necessary—it’s just part of the *Human* Experience. (Not-very-well articulated tokolosi 101.)

Aardwizzz says:

Well done, tokolosi, well done. Instead of trying to fit Karen’s experience into your worldview, you attempt to fit your experiences into her worldview. And she had done the same for you as she was relating her tale: telling it without expecting anyone to share the belief that goes behind it. I think that’s called “communication,” but I’m not sure, as I see so little of it these days.

Let’s Stop Dehumanizing Each Other

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At a time when we desperately need to come together and support the good in each other – at a time when we need to do away with stereotypes and stop dehumanizing each other – it was very disappointing to see the headline in the paper today. It felt like a punch in the gut. It’s time for people of privilege to stop using “Karens” as their scapegoat – as a way to show that they are allies to the disenfranchised and that they aren’t bigots. In actuality, people who use “Karen” as a pejorative are revealing their bigotry – their sexism and ageism – by using the name in this way.

Using “Karen” as a label for a racist isn’t funny or clever. It’s mean. Those named “Karen” feel pain; they cry and mourn and grieve and deal with mental health issues just like everyone else. And this kind of bullying hurts – I have at least one friend named “Karen” who has contemplated suicide in the last year. Using “Karen” in this way does not add anything good or kind to this world. And this world is in desperate need of kindness.
Karen Molenaar Terrell

Do Not Assume

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Please do not tell me what I believe, feel, and think.
– Do not assume because I am a progressive and tend to vote for Democrats that I don’t believe in God, “hate the Bible,” and want to kill babies and take away your guns.
– Do not assume because I believe in God that I am anti-science, believe the earth is flat and the world was, literally, created in seven days.
– Do not assume that because I’m white, middle-aged and named “Karen” I am racist and want to talk to your manager.
– Do not assume that because I identify as a “Christian” I am conservative, opposed to LGBTQ rights, opposed to women’s rights, travel heavily armed, and am voting for you-know-who.

I think if we see others in terms of stereotypes we miss out on some beautiful friendships and kinship with our fellow humans.
-Karen Molenaar Terrell

“Cool! What is that?”

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“The weapons of bigotry, ignorance, envy, fall before an honest heart.” 
– Mary Baker Eddy

I didn’t usually tell people right away – and certainly not the men I dated. I always thought it was better if they got to know me first as a human being. Sometimes it took months for me to tell my friends. Sometimes years. Sometimes the moment never came. I have friends who maybe STILL don’t know. After a number of early experiences, I’d come to the realization that some people would see me differently as soon as they found out. In the past I’d had all kinds of labels attached to me that weren’t really me – I’d been instantly lumped in with fundamentalists and creationists; with people who speak in tongues and handle snakes; with dominionists and faith healers and fire-and-brimstone folks. When one friend – who’d known me for years – finally found out, she’d asked me if I would just leave her bleeding and injured on a sidewalk if she was hit by a car. Which. What…?!

So I guess it says something about Scott that I told him on our first date. I no longer remember how the subject came up, but I found myself saying, “I’m a Christian Scientist.” I guess I half-expected an awkward pause after my reveal, but Scott quickly responded with, “Oh! That’s cool.” Then he glanced over at me, and asked, “What’s that?” 🙂

Turns out he’d never heard of Christian Science! And that was AWESOME – it meant I could explain what it was all about from my own perspective, without any preconceived ideas on his part. I can’t remember now exactly what I said – I probably talked about the Christian Science idea of God as the power and presence of Love; I probably talked about how I had experienced healings in my life by drawing my thoughts close to this power of Love.  And as I talked he listened and nodded and accepted me. He shared some of his own thoughts about God – he’d been raised in the United Methodist tradition of New England and he, too, had been raised to believe in a loving God who cared for His children. He understood the beliefs I was describing, and accepted me as “me” right away.

Scott and I have never had a need to “convert” each other – to try to make each other hold the exact same religious beliefs. If asked, he’d probably still say he was a Methodist. If asked, I’d probably still say I was a Christian Scientist. But beyond religion, we share the same values – we both believe in the power of kindness. We both believe we should be generous to those in need; fair and honest in our dealings with others; and protective of our natural environment. We both believe we shouldn’t be quick to make judgments about others.

It’s been thirty-six years now since I  had that first conversation with Scott. Through all that time he’s continued to be supportive of me and my practice of Christian Science. I am so grateful for him, and for people like him – people who approach others with open minds and hearts – ready to listen and share and learn from each other – people able to go past stereotypes and see the individuals behind the labels.
-Karen Molenaar Terrell

what people think I do

Robin’s Egg

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He comes towards me on the trail
– a big, brawny man with a bald head 
and tattoos on his arms. I turn away 
to take photos of the ferns on the forest
floor and when I turn back he’s passed me.
I glance back at the same moment he glances
back at me. He uses his walking stick
to point to a place on the path near me.
I turn in the direction he’s pointing –
not sure what he wants me to see –
and find myself looking at the remnants
of a tiny, fragile blue egg. A new nestling
has pecked open her shell. “Robin’s egg,”
the big man rumbles in his deep bass voice,
a sweet smile on his face. I smile back at him.
“It’s beautiful,” I say. “Yes, it is,” he agrees.
And he turns and continues down the trail.
– Karen Molenaar Terrell

“I’m putting you on ignore!”

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The time for thinkers has come. Truth, independent of doctrines and time-honored systems, knocks at the portal of humanity.- Mary Baker Eddy

So there’s this tool you can use on the Amazon discussion forums that will allow you to “ignore the trolls” – you click this button and their posts go into hiding under a sign that says “You are ignoring this customer’s posts.” I myself am too curious to know what everyone else is saying to have much success using this tool, but those folks who aren’t as nosy as me sometimes use this device as a way to protect themselves from personalities they find disturbing for whatever reason.

Of course, there are folks who cannot resist letting the people they have on ignore know they have them on ignore (which sort of defeats the whole purpose, right?) – and then they need to let everyone ELSE know they’ve got these folks on ignore, too – so often an announcement is made to the person who is being put on ignore – an announcement everyone else can see, too: “I’m putting you on ignore!”

And so the fun continues. “Oh yeah?! Well, I put you on ignore first – so there!” “Well, if you put me on ignore how can you see my posts, eh?” “I unignored you so I could see your post telling me you’re ignoring me – and how can you see MY post if you’re ignoring me?!” And so on. Yeah. Good times. Good times.

But I recently found a thread devoted to ignoring “trolls” that gave me some pause for contemplation. Two of the posters that the people on this thread were considering “ignoring” were actually people of education (both had doctors degrees) and intelligence – people who put some thought into their posts. One of these posters identifies himself as an atheist, the other as a Christian – and, although I don’t always agree with them, I usually find something in their contributions to the forums that makes me dig deeper into my own beliefs and thoughts about God and life. Their posts make me think… which… I don’t know… but I’ve always considered that a GOOD thing, right?

So I wrote this response:

Wow. I have now read through this thread. It has been an eye-opener, for sure.

I see some of us are debating whether to put those big bad trolls H. and E. on ignore. And I say, right on! I think it’s best to always ignore intelligent, educated posters – like H. and E. – who might actually make us question our own stereotypes and biases and points of view. I mean, who really wants to spend any time in SELF-reflection when we can better spend our time telling OTHER people how to think, believe, and live, right? So I think we should all scurry off to our separate little groups, fortify our barriers, unite against people who don’t think like we do about stuff, find our scapegoats for every ill that has ever befallen the planet (this could be theists or atheists or Jews or Muslims or Christians or Democrats or Republicans or Ralph Nader, depending on one’s perspective), and ignore the hell out of them. Let’s make sure they know we’re ignoring the hell out of them, too. And let everyone else know we’re ignoring the hell out of them. And let’s gossip about them. Ooh! Ooh! Does life get any more fun than that?!! 🙂

Yeah. I know. I am such a troll.

And, after a little more “discussion” about “group-think” – the need the people on this thread seemed to have to come to a consensus about who to ignore, as opposed to deciding as independent, individuals thinkers which posters are helpful, and which aren’t, I finally was the recipient of the words: “I’m putting you on ignore!”  🙂

Weirdly, this did not have the effect the other poster was probably hoping it would have on me. I found myself smirking. Not so’s she could see – but, yeah, in the privacy of my own home I was smirking. Being put on ignore by a poster simply because I questioned her stereotypes proved what I’d long suspected: We tend to ignore those people who threaten our own comfortable view of the world – we tend to ignore voices that might force us to take stock of ourselves and… yeeks!… change the way we look at stuff. And so we band together with like-minded people – isolate ourselves and insulate ourselves from differing perspectives – and find a television “news” station or other “news” source that caters to our own little conceits, and our stereotypes of others.

It’s all so silly, ain’t it?

How are we ever going to learn and progress if we shut ourselves off from others who challenge the way we look at things?

seagull and cormorant

Animal Kingdom Discussion Forum

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Rhonda Lee Rocks! – Bigoted busybody bullying bossy britches brazenly brandishing their bigotry, begone!

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Message I just posted on KTBS’s website (which now seems to have disappeared from the page): Rhonda Lee is absolutely beautiful! And her response to the viewer criticizing her length of hair was measured, thoughtful, and well-reasoned. Even HE apparently agreed with her response. Why KTBS should fire this beautiful, intelligent woman is a mystery to me. Unless… of course, now that I see those four white faces in the picture above – three of them with blond hair – I think I have an inkling… bigotry is not a pretty thing. – Karen Molenaar Terrell, a middle-aged white lady from Washington State.

If you haven’t heard about the firing of Rhonda Lee, here’s the link to the story: http://shine.yahoo.com/work-money/meteorologist-rhonda-lee-she-fired-defending-her-hair-200400289.html

And if you’d like a link to the KTBS website, here it is: https://www.facebook.com/KTBS3

I hate bigotry. I mean – I REALLY hate bigotry. Bigoted busybody bossy britches bullies who brazenly brandish their bigotry really toast my cookies. What happened to Rhonda Lee is a prime example of bigotry. But we see it everywhere, don’t we? Any time you see individuals of a particular group being stereotpyped and lumped together and seen as some kind of monolithic entity, you’re seeing bigotry.Whenever I read  sentences about groups of people that start –  “All atheists think…” or “All Christians believe…” or “All Muslims feel…”  or “All gay men want…” –  I can bet that I’m about to read an example of bigotry.  If we want to  understand each other, I do not think it is helpful to lump individuals under one big umbrella and assume we know what all these individuals think, believe, feel, or want. If you want to know what an individual thinks about something – ask him.

I have never felt the need for everybody else to believe exactly the same way I believe about things.  Whatever beliefs others want to hold about life – so long as those beliefs don’t cause harm to others – I’m fine with that. As my dear Aunt Junie used to say: Whatever makes your socks go up and down. I think we’re all drawn to the path in life that makes the most sense to us, as individuals – some of us will be atheists, some of us will be Buddhist, and others of us will be Christian Scientists – and, so long as we’re not tromping on someone else’s rights in our own life journey – it’s all good.

But bigotry DOES harm others, and DOES lead to tromping on the rights of others. When bigots prevent others from their basic human rights – from getting (or keeping) a job, from the freedom of owning a home in the neighborhood of one’s choice, from voting, or marrying, or getting a drink of water from a water fountain – this we cannot support. This is not right, or good, or in any way helpful to the advancement of mankind. This kind of thing must end. We – all of us – as the children of Love – deserve better from ourselves and each other.

***

“The weapons of bigotry, ignorance, envy, fall before an honest heart.” – from Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures by Mary Baker Eddy

“And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.” – I Timothy 5

“Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.” – Exodus 20: 16

“Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.  He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love…There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. ” – I John 4